PPC Submitter : Saturday, August 13, 2011, 15:39
Don’t send tickets via email- Paypal will not protect you from fraud
I sold 2 tickets to see a Celtics vs. Heat playoffs game on eBay and have wound up scammed with zero support from Paypal.
I have an online ticketing account through the Boston Celtics (similar to what season ticket holders have) so I am able to access etickets through this system. I can manage the upcoming games that I have tickets to and download my tickets straight from the internet. Additionally, this official Celtics ticketing system allows me to email tickets directly to any email address, and tracks/verifies the sending of the tickets, the acceptance of the tickets, and the usage of the tickets by the other party.
So I sold the tickets and like many many, many ebay sellers I emailed “etickets” to the winning bidder. Nowhere in eBay/paypal policies does it warn AGAINST sending tickets through email. But sure enough, the winning bidder had hacked into someone else’s bank account and used their money to pay for the two tickets. As this buyer had a confirmed address through the fraudulent paypal account, I thought nothing of engaging in the sale.
2 weeks later, I recieved an email saying a dispute had been opened and the money for the tickets was being reversed. Paypal informed me of the bank account fraud and said I was unprotected because I didn’t have tracking info. The funny thing is, I have official proof from the Boston Celtics that the tickets were emailed, received, and used by this scammer.
In fact, the proof I have goes a lot further than tracking info towards verifying the tickets were sent – all tracking information proves is that a piece of mail was sent and delivered, but there’s no way to prove that the mail contained real tickets!
Just like eBay/paypal doesn’t back money orders and other forms of payment, they shouldn’t allow tickets to be sold and sent via email. This is a policy (or lack of a policy) designed to defraud EVERYONE dealing with eticket sales through ebay. If everyone is susceptible, then why allow it?
Please, if anyone has advice, post a comment and show me the way :-/
Submitted By:: Nathan
Location: Hartford, CT
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Hello Nathan. I noticed that you tried to attach a file containing the document you had proving your case, not sure why it didn’t go through. If you are able please contact me and I will give you an email address to send the attachment to.
You are correct, PayPal’s user agreement does not state anything directly regarding items sent via’ email. However, their policy on intangible items and digital goods has them covered-
Many sellers are caught off guard by this particular PayPal policy. I would never recommend PayPal or ebaY to anyone selling digital products or anything intangible, better to use a REAL credit card merchant account if you sell a significant amount of anything falling within this category.
I want to say first I am not an attorney so I can’t give legal advice. These are only suggestions of what I would do and are not meant to be legal advice. You know a lot of times an attorney will allow you 1/2 hour free to discuss your case. An attorney is best for interpreting the laws.
I would first try the FTC and talk to them about the transaction and see what they recommend. I would file a complaint with the FTC. The IC3 has a lot more bite. The unfortunate side of these agencies is that they have to have a number of claims before they act.
There are two options you can do here which include the FTC and IC3 which is an actual governmental internet policing body. Law Enforcement will be involved. If it was me I would email them that you are taking the complaint to the IC3 if they don’t return the money in a USPS money order. What the people did, in my opinion from what you said, was Fraud which is a crime.
One of the problems I see here is if Pay Pal said that it was not legal then they shouldn’t have taken your money which be thought to bind them to a contract which they now must honor. I haven’t read all of the convoluted attorney written terms by Pay Pal though so I could be mistaken. An attorney is still best to discuss the problems as I am not one and don’t practice law.
On April 19, 2011 I sold two Knicks vs Celtics playoff tickets for April 22, 2011 for $1,499.00. The tickets were purchased through ebay and paid with a verified Paypal account using a credit card. Paypal put a hold on the payment and then 24 hours later, advised that it is safe to ship the tickets. I sent the tickets to the buyer through the NY Knicks season subscription service which is run by ticketmaster. After receiving the tickets, the buyer responded to me by e-mail to say thank you. I have a delivery confirmation from the Knicks/ticketmaser that the tickets were sent and this is the e-mail that the buyer forwarded to me to say thank you for shipping the tickets. 90 days later, I was notified by Paypal that the buyer filed a chargeback with his credit card company stating an unauthorized charge of the tickets. Paypal reversed the $1,499 payment and told me that I have 10 days to respond to the claim. I faxed over documentation and e-mail exchanges as well as ticket delivery confirmation from ticketmaster/ny knicks. The exchanges were between myself and the buyer using his verified e-mail address which he uses for both ebay and paypal. I thought that this was obviously a fraudulent chargeback claim as someone allegedly targeted this buyer, knew his ebay ID and password, made a purchase via ebay, then knew his paypal account and password, then knew the buyers credit card number and added it to the account for this purchase and then also knew the buyer’s verified e-mail account and password and had multiple exchanges with me, the seller, before and after the transaction. Paypal then lodged a fee against my account claiming that the credit card company charges them for chargebacks which they pass on to me. Paypal then said they will investigate. A couple of weeks later they said that they will present my evidence to the credit card company to try and fight the chargeback claim, but then advised it was solely up to the credit card company, not paypal to make the decision. Weeks later, I received an e-mail from Paypal that there was not enough evidence from me to fight the claim. However if I log into paypal, they claim that unlike the e-mail they sent me, they did fight it but the credit card company declined it. Both were boiler plate messages. Paypal has yet to refund any fees they collected on this alleged fraudulent charge. in addition, ebay has secured a $72.98 fee in this alleged fraudulent transaction and has not refunded this even after asking them to do so. I have reported this transaction to the FBI online fraud department which after a long investigative form was submitted, they stated that they will only forward this to the local authorities. So Paypal and Ebay have both wiped their hands free of protecting me on any level yet has still kept the fees for this fraudulent activity. i know that there are thousands more out there like me. PAYPAL and EBAY are not safe venues to sell items or receive monies. Thousands more will still be scammed by this. In addition, I would like to continue my fight to claim my $1,499 by the individual who purchased my tickets and then filed an unauthorized purchase. Any suggestions?